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Talk:Barbarian 28/ bard 2/ red dragon disciple 10 (human)
BAB Not sure if you're finished yet but i think you overlooked the 30 BAB. it's actually 24 ;) kinda low for a melee build, but that's just my humble opinion :) of course it entirely depends what you do with it. --Pimpernell 19:36, July 28, 2011 (UTC) *26, actually, but you are correct (9 from barbarian, 0 from bard, 7 from disciple, 10 from epic levels). I totally forgot that epic levels gave BAB differently... You still dish out the maximum number of attacks (+16/+11/+6/+1), but its not ideal at all. What do you think? --Thereallarkas 21:15, July 28, 2011 (UTC) :*right, 26 BAB. shame on me! --Pimpernell 03:25, July 29, 2011 (UTC) :* I think that is why Pstarky has the other build taking only barbarian levels pre-epic. The other build has a higher AB at all levels, even though this one gets the RDD strength bonuses earlier. --The Krit 19:21, August 18, 2011 (UTC) Feats did you forget to add the extra feat at level one or did you leave that open? the notes aren't really clear on that. --Pimpernell 03:25, July 29, 2011 (UTC) *sorry! i overlooked the +1 (feat) at first level. --Pimpernell 03:28, July 29, 2011 (UTC) :* Well, that "+1" was somewhat cryptic, so overlooking it could be understandable. Hopefully it is better now. --The Krit 19:50, September 30, 2011 (UTC) Effectiveness uhm what do i think? well, i'm certainly no expert and to be honest, i can't remember ever playing a high level barbarian :P so maybe someone else can better comment on this build. at least 26 BAB is above the medium of 25 with 4 BA/Rnd, and has a nice set of skill points. but to see a real difference, you would have to make this with all RDD after level 20. you'll only lose some skill points and a few HP, but gain +4 AB. so it really depends what you want to do with it, if you really need the skill points, and if you really need to have more strength earlier on. if i had to play this, i would go for exotic and take weapon focus dwarven axe at first level. the AB might not be effective for the higher crit rate from bastard or katana. maybe with taunt it will be, but i never liked using it. so i would switch taunt for UMD or something else, depending the module. i would also drop great cleave and take knockdown... but in the end, builds are like clothing. people use different clothing for different occasions, depending taste ;) --Pimpernell 03:25, July 29, 2011 (UTC) * Hmmmm, I'll leave it like that for now. I'll try testing this build as it is in an actual ongoing game, since the idea is for it to be an early powerhouse. It can easily be adapted to be like 1-20 Barbarian, 21 Bard, 22-31 RDD: one would be sacrificing only 16 skill points, 5 of which are unused. Intimidate really only needs to be at 25, so one could easily take those 11 points from it, leaving it at 32. Actually, I think that might be for the best. Heck, that's exactly how Pstarky did it. It would have only 1 skill point in advantage over that build, but the extra feat actually might be a good thing. --Thereallarkas 04:34, July 29, 2011 (UTC) :* Any progress on this testing? The build still looks to me to be inferior to the build it tries to improve upon (the loss of AB is a big deal), unless you adapt the order of class levels. However, if you adapt the class levels back to the way the original build had them, then I have difficulty seeing this as its own (separate) build. --The Krit 20:39, September 14, 2011 (UTC) * I would not worry so much about playing a high level barbarian, since the stated motivation for this variant is "more powerful in the early levels". I am still looking for that myself. The upsides here are an extra feat (but that is unspecified, so difficult to judge its usefulness), extra skill points (but those are not really utilized until terrifying rage is gained), and slightly more damage (+1 to +3) from the strength modifier at levels 9-30. I don't see that being worth the lower AB (at all levels, even after accounting for RDD strength boosts). Sorry, but it looks to me as though this build is less powerful in the early levels. --The Krit 19:37, August 18, 2011 (UTC) Race I was looking at this build's abilities and it got me to wondering why the racial change from the half-orc version. The benefits of going with the human race are an extra feat and extra skill points. However, the extra feat is not used (left unspecified) and the extra skill points are used to offset the lower intelligence. At first glance, there also appears to be a gain in dexterity without the half-orcish ability adjustments, but you could get the same result with a half-orc whose strength is "only" 18: : strength = 18 (costs 10 points for a half-orc) : dexterity = 12 (costs 4 points) : constitution = 14 (costs 6 points) : wisdom = 8 (costs 0 points) : intelligence = 12 (costs 6 points for a half-orc) : charisma = 10 (costs 4 points for a half-orc) Aside from intelligence, which is actually higher for the half-orc, these ability scores are the same as the human version. The only real change from going human is that darkvision is replaced by the player's choice of feat, and since that is left up to the player, it is not really part of the build, is it? The racial change is looking like a net loss to me. --The Krit 12:29, September 30, 2011 (UTC)